The interview I am referring to was the one he gave to the International Herald Tribune on 24 August 2007 (the story appeared in the 29 August edition). The newspaper was represented by Leonard M. Apcar, deputy managing editor, Wayne Arnold, a Singapore correspondent, and Seth Mydans, Southeast Asia bureau chief.

Excerpt of the transcript from the website of the Ministry of Information, Communication and the Arts:

Lee Kuan Yew: For the top 20 percent of the population, there are no constraints there. I would say . . . top 20 percent, the educated population. They're educated abroad, at university. So, they know the wide world and they are on the Internet and they've got friends, they e-mail them. They travel. Every year, about 50 percent of Singaporeans travel by air.

So, this is not a closed society. But at the same time, we try to maintain a certain balance with the people who are not finding it so comfortable to suddenly find the world changed, their world, their sense of place, their sense of position in society. We call them the heartlanders in the HDB estates [government housing developments], the people who live in three- and four-room flats. Three and four rooms are the lowest-end. Five rooms and the executives are the upper end.

And so we have this dichotomy. You can read the analysis by our academics who wrote that we are using the heartlanders to keep progress in check. But they have not governed the place. (laughs) The academics, they write these things from abstract analysis. Like gays, we take an ambiguous position. We say, O.K., leave them alone but let's leave the law as it is for the time being and let's have no gay parades.

IHT: Don't ask, don't tell?

Lee Kuan Yew: Yes, we've got to go the way the world is going. China has already allowed and recognized gays, so have Hong Kong and Taiwan. It's a matter of time. But we have a part Muslim population, another part conservative older Chinese and Indians. So, let's go slowly. It's a pragmatic approach to maintain social cohesion.

 
Three other things struck me. His awareness that China, Hong Kong and Taiwan are ahead of Singapore indicates that he has been enquiring about the issue. To what extent he is absorbing what he's reading, I don't know, but you see an effort to find out.

The second thing I noticed was the reference to "for the time being" and "It's a matter of time." This tells you that the non-repeal of Section 377A, the law that makes "gross indecency" between males a crime, coupled with a clear statement that it would not be "pro-actively enforced", is seen as no more than a way station.

Until when? You might ask. Indeed that is hard to say. The government may be waiting to see whether this half-measure will still hurt economically. If it does, in the form of an unshakeable image of intolerant puritanism, making foreign talent hesitate before relocating here or Singapore-born talent refusing to return after studies abroad, then they will move faster.

The third, and most striking thing was his mention of Muslims and older Chinese and Indians, whom I often call the "traditional conservatives". Indeed there are many Singaporeans in these groups who would resist social change, but as most observers would have noted, the most vocal anti-gay lobbying comes from an altogether different quarter -- the dogmatic Christians, who tend to be better educated, more westernised and often, not "heartlanders".

Why did Lee not mention them? In fact, looking back, I don't think he has ever mentioned them. By now, I do not believe he doesn't know about their lobbying, since he has obviously spent time reviewing the subject.

There are 2 possibilities that I can think of:

1. He doesn't want to legitimise their opposition. He knows it is religiously based and that if he recognises their argumentation as a factor then he opens a Pandora's box for Singapore.

2. He has come to the conclusion that numbers-wise, they aren't important; actually, it is quite obvious, when compared to traditional conservatives. 

* * * * *

The person who sent the recording to me asked me to write about it, but frankly, there is no need to say much more. It speaks for itself.

In the middle part of Derek Hong's rant, he accuses gay people of wanting to "eradicate all self-help groups.... that seek to help homosexuals recover."

Now these are the notorious ex-gay programs that claim to "treat" homosexuality. Yet, over the years, there's been a steady stream of ex-gay leaders found to be lurking around still seeking homosexual sex. So much for being "cured". In 2003, I wrote about Michael Johnston and John Paulk in Ex-gay ministries and the cures that don't work. 

That article also tells of others who have come to their senses and spoken out against the ex-gay deception. In fact, the same month that Hong was speaking, five ex-gay leaders in Australia publicly condemned such groups.

 
In a way, I am glad Lee Kuan Yew makes no reference to such dogmatists from the Christian rightwing. They are nutcases, and a liability to Singapore.

© Yawning Bread