August 2003

Reflections on a meeting with the Venerable Shi Ming Yi


    

 

 

Led by my friend Kelvin Wong, five of us met with the Venerable Shi Ming Yi, a Buddhist monk, the evening of 17 August 2003. The Ven Shi heads the Ren Ci Foundation, a Buddhist charity organisation, and is also currently the secretary-general of the Singapore Buddhist Federation. He is highly respected in Singapore generally.

Soon after Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong's comments appeared in Time Magazine, the Straits Times asked him for his views on homosexuality.

Ven Shi said, "People have different likes and dislikes. Of course, as a religion, we do not think that homosexuality is right. But we should still respect them and try to help them as much as possible. We would extend them a hand of compassion."

(See the article Employing gays in civil service a 'tiny step forward') 

Kelvin and I were baffled at the statement that as a religion, homosexuality is not considered right. We knew that nowhere in the Buddhist scriptures was there any mention about homosexuality, and Buddhist teachings about sexuality generally weren't skewed towards heterosexism, if one stripped away cultural overlays.

So Kelvin wrote him a letter (co-signed with a few others), to which the Ven Shi was kind enough to return a phone call. He readily agreed to a meeting and a week later, there we were face to face.

This is not a report of the meeting, but some thoughts that I had during the meeting and soon after.

 

'Only reflecting the popular opinion of the Chinese-speaking' -- Ven Shi

Kelvin began by recapitulating the statement made to the Straits Times. The Ven Shi replied immediately, confirming that Buddhist scriptures said nothing about homosexuality. "It doesn't say it's right; it doesn't it's wrong."

He explained that what he said to the newspaper was because he was reflecting the general opinion of Buddhists in Singapore, who were mostly Chinese-speaking and who felt that homosexuality was somehow unacceptable. Parents would not look kindly upon their children being gay.

Consequently, he explained at length that that was probably the best he could do. He felt that it was not realistic to move an entire body – the Buddhist congregation – except by tiny little steps. If he had put out a radical, purist, gay-friendly one, he would have been shunned by other monks and Buddhist opinion leaders. More hardline ones would have disavowed his statement and issued sterner ones. And he would lose what leverage he had to gently move Singapore Buddhists to a better understanding of the issue.

You have to agree he does have a point, but then it begs the question, is he really doing anything to move Singapore Buddhists forward? And my conclusion, after listening to the entirety of what he had to say is: very little.

 
'
A matter of personal likes and dislikes' -- Ven Shi

We have to give it to him that he always spoke of homosexual orientation in neutral tones. He referred to the matter as one of personal likes and dislikes, and he volunteered his opinion that it's probably something one is born with. He also mentioned in passing that it's impossible in many instances to tell who is gay who isn't. I felt it was good that we were in conversation with someone who at least didn't dispute the starting basis and facts.

 

The first precept

After the meeting, one of the participants remarked to me, with reference to the Ven Shi feeling he had to say what he had to say, "You see how difficult Buddhism can be? The first precept says you must not lie. But even a monk finds it so hard to live up to it!"

 

But unfortunately, he tended to speak in terms of counselling the individual, and I assumed he meant the gay individual. His point was: it's not for anyone to tell you how to live your life; you have to work out who you are and what you want first before you can plot your life journey. He pointed out that one of the most fundamental teachings of Buddhism was to be aware of one's self and to have an understanding of one's impulses.

I didn't think it was satisfactory that any discussion about homosexuality started and ended with the gay individual. I and other participants tried to point out that the issue was not the person himself but the general negative environment that caused problems to the individual, and that religious leaders had a duty to be careful about what they said, because people looked up to them. Their words help create the environment.

 
'Pressures to conform often lead to much misery' -- Ven Shi

We discussed at some length about the pressures families applied to gay individuals to conform, and how these pressures led to a lot of unhappiness. The Ven Shi completely agreed that indeed the pressures to conform or to keep up appearances often lead to much misery. Worse, he added, third parties, such as the children, have been hurt as a result of such actions, e.g. when the marriage breaks down.

Seizing that, I tried to make the point that if he recognised that that was the case, then there must be an obligation upon those who created or applied those social pressures, to reflect upon their actions. How could we excuse actions when we knew that these actions had hurtful consequences on others?

As an analogy as I asked: how can bystanders seeing a group of people taunting someone to jump to his death not feel a moral responsibility to do something about the taunting?

 
Ven Shi seemed to be resisting the idea of social responsibility to speak out

I'm afraid we didn't get very far on this point with the Ven Shi. He seemed to resist the idea of social responsibility to speak out against prejudice. He kept coming back to how at the individual level, he could be counted upon to be fair and open-minded when dealing with specific cases. I didn't doubt that he would indeed be so. But he seemed to reiterate repeatedly that he could not speak out on a more global level.

He explained, in response to another question, that the older Buddhist monks he had met in Hong Kong, China, Taiwan and other countries were not accepting of gay persons. On the other hand, the younger set of monks and lay leaders tended to have very diverse opinions. Separately, he mentioned that the Chairman of the Buddhist Federation, an older monk, had told him he should not be responding to the press on this issue. The suggestion seemed to be, "don't get involved."

Ven Shi felt constrained by the relatively unreformed attitudes in the Chinese-speaking community who made up the bulk of the Buddhist followers here. He said what he felt they wanted to hear, moderated as much as he could by references to compassion.

 
We said to Ven Shi: You don't have to say it's right, just stop saying it's wrong

After he repeated that stance a few times, I realised that he thought we were asking him to make a statement approving of homosexuality. I quickly clarified the matter. No one is asking any religious leader to say homosexuality is right, just stop saying it is wrong. We're not asking for endorsement, we're just asking them to stop giving cause to homophobia, which surely everybody considers wrong.

I think my message got through, because as I spoke, I could see a flash of perception on his face, and also, because after that, he seemed a mite less defensive about his real position.

Still, it stunned me a bit to think that religious leaders who are supposed to have spent a lifetime thinking about issues of morality, immorality and amorality, need to be reminded by me that there is the middle ground of amorality. I wonder now how many people think like that: that if anyone stops saying homosexuality is wrong, he must surely mean it is right. Thus one mustn't stop saying it is wrong.

 

Born?

Too many people take a literal meaning of the phrase "born with", and then go into a convoluted but misguided argument about where the scientific proof lies and "gay genes" and so on. We should learn to listen, and when we do, we would realise that when people say "born", it's a convenient shorthand to mean that it's an immutable trait. Where exactly the trait comes from is not as important as the fact that it is immutable.

 

Not quite Buddhism, but Chinese Buddhism

I said earlier in this essay that Buddhist teachings about sexuality generally aren't skewed towards heterosexism, if one strips away cultural overlays. What came through loud and clear was that Ven Shi wasn't ready to strip away the cultural overlays. In fact, his words were based more on the cultural overlay than on pure Buddhist teachings, and to my disappointment, he seemed to consider that fair and proper.

Here again, another participant remarked to me after the meeting, its funny how the Ven Shi kept saying the Chinese are conservative, meaning they are not tolerant of homosexuality, and imply that such attitudes are traditional to the Chinese. In fact, it's well known that these are relatively modern attitudes, brought in by Western (therefore Christian) influences.

Near the conclusion of the meeting, we tried to explore some overarching issues. One of the five participants asked the Ven Shi his opinion about situations where Buddhist scriptures, 2,600 years old, do not address modern issues. To what extent should Buddhism innovate to respond to modern issues? I had a related question – is there a strong tradition of intellectual enquiry in (Mahayana) Buddhism?

I don't think we got any real answers to this, which left intact my suspicion that Mahayana Buddhism lacks an intellectual element to help it respond to the modern world. The emphasis was on form, worship, self-development and charity – the spiritual side.

What is missing is the concept of social justice, which are very evident in Islam and many branches of Western Christianity. This concept of social justice requires a religion to first be comfortable with the idea of making judgements, because without making judgements, how is one to know what is just and what is unjust? Well, Christianity and Islam are judgemental if nothing else, but also, in Christianity, adherents take inspiration from the way Jesus was said always to have worked for the downtrodden. Buddhism's tradition is quite different. It tries very hard not to make judgements about the way the secular world is ordered. Its main thrust is to escape from temporal miseries, by developing the self and doing good works. Compassion without judgement.

It's been remarked that the promise of social justice partly explains why Christianity and Islam continue to make inroads into the older religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism. These religions have a tendency to merely advise the powerful to be merciful and the weak to accept their fate. Christianity and Islam offer better answers to the weak and powerless, and their leaders feel it within their remit to speak the truth to Caesar.

Ah, but then, what kind of "truth"?

© Yawning Bread 


 

Mainly Mahayana Buddhism in Singapore

The largest branch of Buddhism here in Singapore is Mahayana or Chinese Buddhism, There is much admixture of Chinese cultural ideas and practices. The Ven Shi comes from the Mahayana tradition. This is quite different from the Theravada tradition seen in Thailand, Burma or Sri Lanka, and certainly from the much more austere Tibetan tradition.

 

 

 

Footnotes

  1. See also the article Buddhism and homosexuality

Addenda

 

  1. One of the participants at the same meeting with Ven Shi, on reading this essay, emailed me his further thoughts too:

    Read your article on the above matter and concurred with most of your points especially on the distinction between Buddhism and Chinese Buddhism. Ven Shi seems to be constrained by his Sinic cultural setting and furthermore, as commented, this setting is to some extent a product of Singapore's politics. Just look at the Taiwanese, they are much more vocal and outspoken.

    The other point is that on one hand he preferred gays to develop or have a strong will to show to others gradually that gays are just like anybody else, on the other hand he reiterated the kind of "political" environment he is in and there is a limit how much and how fast he could do. Looks like his level of will is not that strong either. Perhaps you are right that homosexuality is really not his problem and we should not be puzzled by such double standard. But as a whole he is still right that we should take up such burden of proof.

    As to your point that Mahayana Buddhism lack an intellectual element to respond to modern issues - I think this is half true. The level of intellectuality the various Buddhisms displayed, from Theravada to Mahayana are well known but the problem I think was such intellectuality was almost always confined to application at the individual and spiritual level e.g. Abhidhamma of Theravada and Madhyamaka of Mahayana. It was only since WWII that some Westerners started to apply Buddhist intellectual concepts into macro issues in a more systematic and bigger way e.g. the nature of capitalist economic system and the adverse effects by Dr David Loy. Indeed there is a new school of Buddhism that is now emerging and is sometimes called "Western Buddhism" - a Buddhism that is radically thought and modified with highly urbanised and industrialised societies in mind and also somehow incorporates the strong tradition of activism rooted in Judeo-Christianity and modern social sciences ideologies like Marxism, Critical Theory, environmentalism, etc. Buddhists who do all these are sometimes called "engaged Buddhists".

    The Buddhisms in Asia on the other hand are still not that involved. Hence what Buddhism lacks is not intellectualism per se but an application of that at the societal level. Instead my question to Ven Shi as to what extent Buddhism could innovate also touched on this point of being socially engaged.

  2. Another Yawning Bread reader (he wasn't at the meeting) emailed me some interesting information I hadn't known of:

    I would like to add in some additional comments regarding Chinese Buddhism and homosexuality, in particular with regards to your meeting with Ven Shi Ming Yi. Are you aware that Ven. Master Hsing Yun who is the founder and leader of the Fo Guang Shan Buddhist Order and the Buddha's Light International Association, which has over one million followers and is the largest Chinese Buddhist organization in the world, practicing in the Ch'an (Zen) and Pure Land paths (the 2 main Chinese Buddhist traditions) has explicitly maintained tolerance for homosexuals in his book Buddhism : Pure and Simple

    http://cellar.usc.edu:9673/review/iglr/review.html?rec_id=753

    I am a Malaysian studying in England and practicing in the Zen Buddhist tradition (was a Christian for the past 15 years). As you may probably be aware, virtually all of the Zen teachers here have no problems with homosexual relationships, as long as they are not entirely predicated on sexual lust (the same comments apply equally to heterosexual relationships).

    You (or any of your Buddhist friends) may be interested in reading the experience of a gay Buddhist teacher in the US who managed to attain satori at the end of his 16-year gay relationship. As you may be aware, satori is the Japanese term for a state of awareness or being in an individual which is considered in the Zen Buddhist tradition to be a small glimpse into the full experience of enlightenment that the Buddha achieved 2500 years ago. The fact that a sexually active gay person is capable of achieving one of the highest technical accomplishments in the Buddhist religion is for me, all the testimony that is required of the status of a gay person in Buddhism.

    http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/gayzenla/myhomepage/pers_spirit_bt.htm