On sex, values and white elephants

source: Straits Times, 28 October 2005, interview conducted by reporter Li Xueying

28 Oct 2005
Straits Times

On sex, values and white elephants

ST: Ministry of Home Affairs' (MHA) review of the Penal Code will be out at the end of this year. One aspect mentioned previously is the law on oral sex. Is it likely to be decriminalised? 

Prof Ho: That one we're looking at. Some of these laws were drafted in the past, so we have to contextualise some of these laws because society changes. It's a big exercise. The various ministries are still working on some of the details. 

What's your personal take? 

My personal take is that between men and women, if you are an adult and there's no force, then what you do in the privacy of your bedroom that has no impact on the public, then you do what you want. 

What about gay sex? 

We're still a conservative society. It's a slippery slope. Once you move, where do you go to? So you'll talk about not just gay sex but also gay marriages, then gay adoptions... 

But using the same argument, that you can do what you want in the privacy of your bedroom? 

That's different because I think men and women having sex is natural. And it is also in a sense consistent with the whole idea of marriage. Of course even if they do it outside of marriage, it is still man and woman, which is still part of this mateship. 

More industrialised nations are moving away from the death penalty. Is it time for us to review this too?

The pressure can come from outside. But the question really is for us in Singapore to decide what works for us. To me, the large majority of Singaporeans accept our penal system, that, yes, it is tough but it is also fair.

But we are not a society that advocates just hard punishment. We've also softened it when appropriate and home detention is an example. We introduced it in 2000 and 6,000 people have gone through it. This is something which is actually quite revolutionary. Not many countries have done it this way but we are prepared to do it.

Do you feel Singapore has been made a laughing stock over the investigation into the white elephant protest over the Buangkok station? 

Many Singaporeans feel it was a creative protest and it's somewhat over the top to have the police investigate. The police have investigated where a complaint is lodged... it violates the Public Entertainments Act. What if the exhibit was something else, maybe something obscene?

I don't think people would say we are a laughing stock. People would say that we are an orderly society that believes in the rule of law and also the professionalism of the police in being consistent. 

Often the Government justifies its actions saying it's simply following the law. Do you think that old laws, such as this and that five people constitute an illegal assembly, trap the Government in old behaviour and old ways of reacting - even when society itself has changed? 

We examine the relevance of our laws all the time. 

Regarding the illegal assembly law, I think nobody can argue that the mischief is being addressed, if there are crowds of people gathering causing disorder, causing fear, causing disruption to traffic...

Laws are in place for good reasons. But whether the parameters can be changed over time, I'll say yes, because no law is cast in stone.

If you ask why five and not 10, well, some number has to be drawn. 

As a Christian, do your religious beliefs affect you in your decision making? 

You have to make decisions according to policies, what is right for Singapore, and Singapore is secular. 

But as a mature religious person, your values are internalised. That's how you act, speak, present yourself. But you don't think, oh, as a Christian, what should this policy be?

At temples for instance, I attend festivals and so on, just that I don't hold joss sticks. 

You said gay sex is 'not natural'. Is that something that comes out of your religious beliefs? 

Yes, could be. Well, I won't attribute it directly. I look at it more as a family bedrock thing, that a family is based on a man and a woman. I think all the main religions in Singapore believe it's how we are made. 

What is it exactly that second-line ministers like you do? 

Depends a lot on the minister and also on who else is there. 

So in MHA, I'm Mr Wong Kan Seng's deputy. I do whatever he asks me to do, because initially, he also has to find a level of confidence in me. So if he feels comfortable enough, then he gives me more work and I do more. Over time, I can also run a bit on my own. 

You mentioned earlier that you're not a natural politician. What do you mean by that?

I think people assume Singaporean politicians to be quite tough, hard-headed and I'm not naturally that kind of person. I can be tough, I can be hard but I think naturally I'm of the softer type.

I can make tough decisions but I'll probably agonise a bit. 

Which was your most agonising decision?

In MHA, you've to defend the death penalty, you have to argue in Parliament and put people down, and I don't enjoy doing it. 

You made the election promise in 2001 that Nee Soon East will be kept a single-seat ward. The final decision lies with the Prime Minister, but do you think it's a promise you can keep? 

I hope so. This one, cannot leak secrets, otherwise the opposition will also know. (laughs) Put yourself in my position. I will lose credibility if it's not a single seat.

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