Daniel Teo kicks it off with a mention of a new bar:
27 July 2002
spotted this new bar, East West, right opposite Rairua at Neil Road.
Nice decor, great music and setting. Not too busy when we visited late
Friday night tho but I understand that the bar only had their soft
opening on Thursday this week.
Wonder if the name of the bar
suggests that it would be another drinking spot for GWMs and their
admirers. Anyone else been there?
28 July 2002
If that is what it is, that's one more spot we do not need. Long Yang
Club in Singapore. Vincent's Lounge, Backstage and Taboo already
packed with GWMs and their admirers. Not to mention California Gym at
Orchard where every gay couple seems to be a fawning Asian guy with his
20-years-older GWM. No wonder this GWM told me that I was "the
first Asian to say no" to him.
28 July 2002
Eaststar that is the difference between the US and Singapore - in the US
lots of Asians say no and are as picky as everyone else.
In Singapore, most singaporeans will
say yes to an American, even before they know what he wants to do.
29 July 2002
i'm appalled you are posting this kind of
racist nonsense here. that you have biogted views is bad enough, but for
you to think you can get away with propagating them in a public,
multi-ethnic forum like Signel is really too much.
what is your problem with GWMs or with
GAMs who are attracted to them / who are open to the idea of being with
we ask str8 people not to coerce us to
love those we are not attracted to (women). yet you are using this group
to try and scorn / shame / bully GAMs who like GWMs by suggesting that
cross-ethnic attractions among gay men are less worthy than
same-ethnicity pairings. isn't that also trying to police who we can
i wonder if in your ideal world, we would
all only date people of the same ethnicity? or are we allowed to prefer
a particular ethnicity? if so, are we allowed to prefer men of our OWN
ethnicity? if yes (as I'm sure you will say), why not men of a different
who knows why we find certain types of
men attractive? younger, older, chub, twink... who knows and really, who
cares? if you like someone, isn't that enough?
and what are you so afraid of anyway?
i can think of only two motivations you
might have.  you are jealous of the popularity of GWMs, and feel they
are stealing your potential mates  you feel altruistic concern for
these vulnerable young GAMs 'fawning' after 20 years older GWMs because
the relationship strikes you as being unequal, maybe reinforcing racial
inequality, with white being the 'superior' partner.
if its the first reason, then deal with
it, life is tough. if its the second reason - you really don't know the
interior dynamics of a relationship just by looking at a couple working
out at the gym. unhealthy or exploitative relationships exist in same-ethncity
couples too, and don't assume that all GAM-GWM realtionships are built
on inequality. Also, maybe both partners ENJOY the different roles they
play? I know that offends the sensibilities of many people (truth be
told, i wouldn't want it for myself either), but as long as its
voluntary, not abusive and both partners seem to want it, then who are
we to say anything?
by the way, speaking as a fellow 'Asian',
are you as scornful when you see a couple where each is of a different
ethnicity- but both are Asian? or is that somehow more ok? or what about
GWM-GAM relationships without the '20 year' age gap that you seem to
despise so much? are those ok? would you prefer to see an older GAM
leather daddy top with a young GWM twink? please, do enlighten us so we
can all behave properly and not offend your sense of the proper order of
Your post is rude, intolerant and racist.
I hope you understand how offensive it is to many people.
29 July 2002
you are definitely right if you are suggesting through your fierce words
that a VARIETY of pubs/bars/clubs is better than pubs/bars/clubs that
seem to have the same crowd. It's kinda boring if all the clubs
attracted the same kind of people. In San Francisco the clubs are so
much more diverse, and there seems to be a club for every fetish. Here
in Singapore we just don't seem to have that (for a multitude of
But I see things differently than you -
the clubs here are very mixed - certainly not as you described them. You
got some sticky rice over there; in the other corner guys who will date
any race on the planet; oh look over there - a fruit fly. You seem to
have a bit of tunnel vision and choose to somehow see only older GWM's
and younger Asian guys, erm, "fawning" over each other
EVERYWHERE. Sorry, that just isn't what is going on on this island IMHO.
I know so many Asians here who only date Asians. I see many Asian boys
at California Fitness working out with other Asian boys. God that's hot,
but ANYWAY, perhaps if you take a REAL look at what is going on around
you, rather than rely on your selective perception to get you through
the day, you'd realise that the little picture that you paint below
wouldn't make a penny on Christie's auction block. But you are certainly
welcome to try http//www.christies.com.
29 July 2002
(in reply to Dinesh)
is merely stating his observation, which in Singapore at least, is
undeniably apparent, unless you can show us otherwise. Personally, I
don't see any racist or bigoted view in this. WfJones as a GWM did not
react the same way as you did, and he actually agreed in many occasions
that this did exist. I think you should cool down before you strike the
29 July 2002
It has the trappings of race but is more
like marketing - I don't believe eaststar is being racist at all.
Look in the USA everyone has a variety of
choices - so everyone is more disciminating in what they pursue - if i
don't want Vanilla I can get Rocky Road; if I don't want Rice I can get
Pasta, and I mean FOOD.
In areas where the majority of the people
are the same ethnic/racial/etc and seem to be seeking something other
than their own similarity - for what every reason - you will have a
sellers market. I don't think this is racist - I think it is reality -
now the individuals may be racist in rejecting the others of the same
group in favoring the exotic one who is different. Commenting on this
situation, I suppose, could be viewed as racist but aren't we all
looking for something new and exciting and different. It is human
Racist would be for me, a white guy, to
be there and reject "Alex, Kelvin, you" or anyone else BECAUSE
they were Chinese, or Indian, or Malay, or Taoist, or Muslim, or Hindu;
not to mention how stupid that would be, especially if i was in
Singapore. I am sure that eaststar's encounter with his Expat was one
where the guy wound up being obnoxious and not comprehending that
eaststar really meant NO. So in a way that Expat was being a bit of a
racist. You must always remember the object of the Smile Singapore
Campagine is to get you all to Smile at the tourist not to jump into bed
with them. When we set our sites on the "object that would be our
affection" if the prize is a person we always stand the possibility
of rejection, no matter how remote that possibility maybe. Since, we
were not present and therefore are not privy to the whole conversation,
possibly eaststar's objection is not to any of this but to being
objectified by the expat.
We all get very sensitive over
perceptions of racism, even me, my daughters are Vietnamese/Americans;
racially eurasian. I think eaststar's objections are probably more
ageist than racist; he doesnt like the idea of GWM's who are 20 years
older and 200 pounds heavier than he is hitting on him, and not taking
NO for an answer, and believing that eaststar is just playing hard to
catch - I am sure eaststar would have no objections to someone his age
range and weight range hitting on him at all of any race. I am sure if
the mature expat had been a rational guy and realized no means no, we
would not be embroiled in this discussion.
In fact I would be so bold as to say -
that I don't appreciate the way some of the mature, overweight, PLU,
expats treat the local PLUs in Singapore. BUT that has little or nothing
to do with age, weight or race it has more to do with people respecting
each other and self esteme. A lot, not all, feel that they can go into
that situation and BUY what they want. UNfortunately there are a lot of
people who are willing to be bought, and some not at a market, much less
a very good or reasonable, price.
Danesh, if you want to date older expats
go ahead, have a great time, enjoy yourself. My only advice is be
cautious; be careful. I have had a number of emails, over the years,
from friends in Sg who have met up with or been picked up by expat
caucasions and have something less than an enjoyable experience. It is
reality. Being Caucasion is no more a justification for being a good and
nice person than being Asian is.
I guess i have to find funds to come to
SG so i can see this new bar for myself!
29 July 2002
dinesh and eaststar has their points. Perhaps they came across strongly
but do take some time out to read the underlying reasons before jumping
the gun (i feel so hypocritical saying this).
Regardless, dinesh, what eaststar means
is the really lethal asian conquest of white men... i have white friends
who are SCARED of asian guys. Similiarly, i have been labeled potato
queen or sticky rice but both sides, usually detrimental to me. (SAD)..
but they, that's labels, and we are all guilty of it.
So lets all be nice and sweet, kiss and
make up )
30 July 2002
refer to the responses to Eaststar's earlier posting.
Some were in support, some against and
some calling for calmness.
I am just curious, would the responses
have come if Dinesh had kept quiet?
Would we have felt the conviction to
respond or would we have treated it as something that was true for THOSE
people and let Eaststar's pronouncements stand?
30 July 2002
I certainly seem to have hit a nerve with Dinesh.
First of all, thanks to Binx and Kayloh
for your postings and being able to see some of my points. Now let me
address the issue more fully.
It's unfortunate that Dinesh fires off
the racist label so quickly, without even understanding the issue here.
And then he suggests it's because I'm "jealous" of the white
men who have all the Asians enthralled. He's so offended by my views,
which he doesn't even understand to begin with.
Contrary to what he presumes, I'm not the
least bit offended by interracial relationships, in fact I encourage
them. I've happily dated Caucasians, Chinese, Indians, Malays, Japanese,
Korean, and African Americans. What I object to is the *fetishization*
of one race, and the ethnic self-hated that results. Did my views offend
you Dinesh? Well, let me tell you what offend me
- I'm offended when Asians who date
*only* white men tell me that I am a "lesbian" because I date
other Asians because "only white men are real men and Asians are
women, so if you like Asians, you are lesbian." This phenomenon is
so common that it's even mentioned in the afterword of David Henry
Hwang's Tony Award-winning play "M Butterfly."
- I'm offended when an Asian says
"if it ain't white, it ain't right" or "aiyoh, I rather
have sex with a dog than another Asian" or "aiyah, as long as
white, can lah." And yes, all these were sentences said to me by
intelligent, attractive, affluent Asians.
- I'm offended when an Asian guy tells me
he can't leave his much older white lover who abuses him (physically and
emotionally) because "the young white guys don't like me, so what
to do... " and when I ask why he won't date another Asian, he says
"eeee year, how can date another Asian, so incest, so gross."
- I'm offended when Asian guys think that
beauty is only found in Caucasian features and go for eyelid surgery,
nose jobs, etc., so they can look "better" -- i.e., more
white. In fact, I just read this in the latest issue of Time (cover
story on plastic surgery) "The culturally-loaded issue today is the
number of Asians looking to remake themselves to look more Caucasian...
Asians are increasingly asking their surgeons for wider eyes and longer
noses...features not typical of the race."
- I'm offended when a gay American says
to me "Singaporeans are not Asian to me. You guys are too proud and
aggressive to be real Asians. You need to be more like the Thais and
Filipinos and Vietnamese, those are the real Asians. I get treated so
much better there, not like in Singapore."
- I'm offended when white guys who have
enjoyed the "never say no" treatment develop a sense of
entitlement that makes them think they can grab my crotch in a bar and
get angry at me when I reject them. And no, they were *not* drunk.
- I'm offended when two white guys in my
gym talk about the Asians they have slept with and end with "man,
the guys here are so easy!"
It's one thing to be attracted to
Caucasian men along with other races, but when you disparage your own
race and scorn Asian-Asian relationships, it becomes another issue
altogether. And when I wrote about the East-West bar, I was saying that
we did not need another place to foster, promote and encourage this sort
of behavior and mindset. Do we need a club like The Web in NYC, another
"east-west" meeting place, where white men used to get in for
free, and Asians paid, because the (Asian) owner believed that white
guys were a premium?
And when I mention that the Caucasians
are "20 years older" I am addressing the issue of the power
imbalance, and not being ageist. Why is it that you always see the older
white man with the younger Asian and never the other way around? Is
there something about being white that makes a person more desirable?
Most of the time when I speak with the Asian guy in such relationships,
I'm told "the young white guys not interested" so they go with
whichever white guy they can get. I for one would love to see a
50-something Asian guy with his 20-something Caucasian boyfriend, but
that sight has never crossed my eyes -- in every instance, the reverse
is the case.
The issues of race, sexual attraction and
power are complex ones that merit discussion and examination. It doesn't
help when one is attacked for being "racist" for daring to
raise the subject.
30 July 2002
GREAT response - read on for my paragraph
my paragraph responses and opinions on what you had to say!!
Well, I certainly seem
to have hit a nerve with Dinesh. First of all, thanks to Binx and
Kayloh for your postings and being able to see some of my points. Now
let me address the issue more fully. It's unfortunate that Dinesh
fires off the racist label so quickly, without even understanding the
issue here. And then he suggests it's because I'm "jealous"
of the white men who have all the Asians enthralled. He's so offended
by my views, which he doesn't even understand to begin with.
Well You must be jealous, OR maybe isit
cuz you have been out in the Big world beyond the tiny Island home and
learned a few things (like choosing friends and bed buddies for the
RIGHT reasons) but why should reality enter into this conversation?
Contrary to what he
presumes, I'm not the least bit offended by interracial relationships,
in fact I encourage them. I've happily dated Caucasians, Chinese,
Indians, Malays, Japanese, Korean, and African Americans. What I
object to is the *fetishization* of one race, and the ethnic
self-hated that results. Did my views offend you Dinesh? Well, let me
tell you what offend me
If I said I hate it when I (yes fat old
me) get treated like a toy boy in SG would you believe it? I hated it
and didnt give a second call to those Singaporeans who treated me that
way. I dont do it and I dont take it. Respect is very important.
--I'm offended when
Asians who date *only* white men tell me that I am a
"lesbian" because I date other Asians because "only
white men are real men and Asians are women, so if you like Asians,
you are lesbian." This phenomenon is so common that it's even
mentioned in the afterword of David Henry Hwang's Tony Award-winning
play "M Butterfly."
Yes this is one of my favorites - or when
I am in an objectivfying mood, though i usually express my disapointment
when i see a happy Asian/Asian couple as oh gee look that is two less
dates I have possibilities at!!
--I'm offended when an
Asian says "if it ain't white, it ain't right" or "aiyoh,
I rather have sex with a dog than another Asian" or "aiyah,
as long as white, can lah." And yes, all these were sentences
said to me by intelligent, attractive, affluent Asians.
This attitude is racist.
--I'm offended when an
Asian guy tells me he can't leave his much older white lover who
abuses him (physically and emotionally) because "the young white
guys don't like me, so what to do... " and when I ask why he
won't date another Asian, he says "eeee year, how can date
another Asian, so incest, so gross."
This attitude is racist.
--I'm offended when
Asian guys think that beauty is only found in Caucasian features and
go for eyelid surgery, nose jobs, etc., so they can look
"better" -- i.e., more white. In fact, I just read this in
the latest issue of Time (cover story on plastic surgery) "The
culturally-loaded issue today is the number of Asians looking to
remake themselves to look more Caucasian... Asians are increasingly
asking their surgeons for wider eyes and longer noses...features not
typical of the race."
This is racist, though cosmetic surgeons
have been maked money doing this for as long as I have been alive and
probably a lot longer.
--I'm offended when a
gay American says to me "Singaporeans are not Asian to me. You
guys are too proud and aggressive to be real Asians. You need to be
more like the Thais and Filipinos and Vietnamese, those are the real
Asians. I get treated so much better there, not like in
I have often referred to Singapore as the
51st State, not that Singaporeans are any less Asian that the Vietnamese
or the Thais, but because at the most unusual times what I consider
American Attitudes come out of you guys, I laugh and remind myself about
the amount of American Television that you all watch and move on. If ANY
Asian group is American the Filippinos get my vote. They were after all
part of America and American Citizens from 1898 till 1948, under their
--I'm offended when
white guys who have enjoyed the "never say no" treatment
develop a sense of entitlement that makes them think they can grab my
crotch in a bar and get angry at me when I reject them. And no, they
were *not* drunk.
In the US we call this the UGLY American
Syndrome - EVIDENTLY we have been doing this for the last 230 years.
--I'm offended when two
white guys in my gym talk about the Asians they have slept with and
end with "man, the guys here are so easy!"
Okay, zipping up my flame proof suit and
putting my armor plated jock in place, when you have young guys coming
up to you in men's toilets and dropping the pants and wanking next to
you as you try to pee it is no wonder they believe that. Yes it happened
to me it was in Lucky Plaza on the Level of Vincents - and he pissed me
off so much I peed and walked away from him and went back to the Bar and
got an ear full from the Bartender at Vincents about the young guys who
It's one thing to be
attracted to Caucasian men along with other races, but when you
disparage your own race and scorn Asian-Asian relationships, it
becomes another issue altogether. And when I wrote about the East-West
bar, I was saying that we did not need another place to foster,
promote and encourage this sort of behavior and mindset. Do we need a
club like The Web in NYC, another "east-west" meeting place,
where white men used to get in for free, and Asians paid, because the
(Asian) owner believed that white guys were a premium?
hahahahah you have several that shall
remain nameless -
Hey the Owner of the WEB, a good friend
of mine, (no not that good,) is a Malaysian Citizen of Chinese
ethnicity. He has made more money selling that East/West Rice bar stuff
for the Last 12 years YET in there I cannot get a date from any of the
Why? Well since I have a bar stool with a
memorial plack with my name on it (hehe NO but almost) - I cannot be
making a fool of my self in that place. Yes I am one of the White guys
who gets in for free. NOT because I am white but because he knows I will
spend money on alcohol all night long for myself and for others who are
partying with me (yes some of them are Asians) Most of the Asian who go
there are looking for dick, but they want dick attached to hot good
looking young buff blonde blue eyed boys. All i can say I have is the
blue eyes. They are not by and large an Alcohol consuming crowd unless
they have a white boy friend - that is why the Asians pay to go in, he
is trying to get somemoney out of them for providing the play space for
them. over the last year I have stopped going because it is just too
depressing to watch some days. I can drink anywhere.
And when I mention that
the Caucasians are "20 years older" I am addressing the
issue of the power imbalance, and not being ageist. Why is it that you
always see the older white man with the younger Asian and never the
other way around? Is there something about being white that makes a
person more desirable? Most of the time when I speak with the Asian
guy in such relationships, I'm told "the young white guys not
interested" so they go with whichever white guy they can get. I
for one would love to see a 50-something Asian guy with his
20-something Caucasian boyfriend, but that sight has never crossed my
eyes -- in every instance, the reverse is the case.
Yes Eaststar I know you are not ageist,
but it was an easy point to raise. Power imbalance it is and again
RESPECT and self esteme issues abound. I too would love to see a 20
something white boy with his Asian Daddy. When I see that, then I will
know we have come around to a point a reasonablity. YET I will tell you
there are more than a few, Singaporeans my age who are for MY age
exceptionally good looking, as in NOT showing their age and still having
that youthful thin appearance. Yes there is a story but I dont Kiss and
The issues of race,
sexual attraction and power are complex ones that merit discussion and
examination. It doesn't help when one is attacked for being
"racist" for daring to raise the subject.
My point exactly and as Benni asked would
be having this discussion if Dinesh hadnt raised his issues. I dont
think we would. I understood what you were talking about. Stuff that i
have observed in Singapore and in the WEB and some of it is just rude
and objectifying. I am not anyone's toy and I wouldnt think of making
anyone my toy. I have found some of the best sex, I have experienced in
my long life, is with other men not with toys. Asian men are high on my
list but I have been with a varitey of men over the course of time.
In my own humble OPINION in Singapore the
ease comes from being the different one - the exotic one and damaged
goods are still exotic. or if we really want to get techincal, when you
have 4 million people who are citizens of one place - of which 400,000
would be plu ....... 200,000 = the opposit sex - of the remaining
200,000 50,000 to young; 50,000 to old for my taste; 50,000 just wont
work out, well they want each other. So that leaves 50,000 chasing after
the gay male angmoh expats who number what MAYBE 1,000? Gee with odds
like that how could any angmoh FAIL to find someone to have sex with.
Well i suppose you do have to remain a live during the date but probably
not awake. Yes it is really a job not to be a pig and take advantage of
this situation. yes that is another story but for another time.
Eaststar you just keep on being who you
are. When you see shit dont be affraid to call it shit and dont be
affraid to say it stinks.
31 July 2002
Your second post contains numerous
examples, and it would be tedious & repetetive to deal with each
point & example, so I have summarised below why i disagree so
strongly with your views.
1. What is wrong with fetishizing one
Some guys fetishize muscles, some have a
thing for dick size, some go for chubs, some are turned on only by feet
/ boots. So what is wrong with having an ethnicity fetish? My point
remains we donít know why we are attracted to certain physical or
other features. It seems to be a real, powerful and mysterious force.
Why canít we accept ethnicity fetishes the way we accept, say, leather
fetishes or whatever?
2. No link shown between ethnic fetishes
and bad behaviour.
Keep your (legitimate) unhappiness with
arrogance, bigotry, self-loathing, etc APART from the issue of ethnic
fetishes. You have not shown any convincing cause-effect link, only
given us some selective bad experiences. I donít understand how
fetishizing one ethnicity "results" (your word) in ethnic
self-loathing. And I donít understand how a bar like East West
"fosters, promotes and encourages" (again, your words) the bad
behaviour you cited.
3. Isolated examples & stereotyping.
Some of the examples you give are indeed
nasty, but they are just that, i.e. isolated personal examples. Just
because some GAMs or GWMs are offensive in behaviour, can we scorn
(because scorn is what you did) - as a whole group - GAMs who
exclusively like GWMs / vice versa? It appears you are guilty of
negatively stereotyping an entire category of people Ė and thatís
never fair. By the way, you sound like an intelligent & sociable
person. Iím surprised that you seem to meet ONLY potato-queens with
bad attitudes. I suggest that we tend notice in other people mainly what
we expect to see / are looking out for.
4. Your observations do not match my
Your experiences are completely different
from my (relatively extensive) contact with potato queens. Therefore I
believe the bad behaviour you described is very unlikely to be a
widespread social phenomenon among this group. Most guys I know with an
ethnic fetish are nice people with high self-esteem, just as capable of
having a successful relationship as anyone else and with healthy views
about Asians, GAMs, GAM-GAM relationships, etc. I can introduce you to
them if you like. You can join me at Backstage one of these weekends
& Iíll buy you a drink (really).
5. Bigotry breeds bigotry.
I notice a casual disdain, & loathing
among some GAMs (as seen in your original post, Eaststar) towards GWMs
and the GAMs who like them. It can make GAMs who are out with GWMs feel
very self-conscious. Why should they feel shy? Because they know that a
lot of other GAMs look down on them, the way many str8 local guys (and
girls) look down on SPGs. Spare a thought for the feelings of SPGs /
potato queens. While I am not at all excusing offensive behaviour, some
of the negative behaviour you cited is probably a reaction / acting out
in response to the scorn they experience from other. So all the more
they flaunt and parade their preferences, as a defence mechanism. In
fact, the more YOU scorn them, the more bitchy they may be with you.
This may explain why you happen to have had so many nasty experiences
with potato queens and I have had none, despite having met so many.
As an aside Binx Ė as it so happens, I
am not a potato queen and I prefer guys my own age. I am making these
points because I know a number of very nice potato queens who are good
friends and it upsets me to see them all unfairly maligned with the same
31 July 2002
you Binx, for your heartfelt thoughts and for expressing them so well
and so thoroughly. I really do appreciate your insight and
contributions. Having lived in NYC for six years (and in Boston for 12
years before that), I, like you, have experienced enough of these issues
to understand their complexity and their effects on all our lives.
Unfortunately, I have to say that too often, guys like you are in the
minority; I usually seem to be running into Americans who seem to view
every other race as less-than-human and fodder for use and abuse. And
then I meet the Asians who are only too happy to support this attitude
by their lack of self-esteem and by their antipathy towards their own
race, culture and people. So it's certainly very welcome and refreshing
to meet a gay white American with your views -- if only there were more
people like you around! -)
31 July 2002
reply may be a little late, but I feel compelled to respond, maybe
because this is something quite personal to me.
I have to agree with Eaststar's comments.
Don't label me a bigot or a racist for that. I'm of mixed parentage,
resulting in my rather "caucasian" appearance (but believe me,
I'm a asian through and through) ... many times have I been approached
here in our good old island by local asians, under the assumption that I
was one of "the others" ... they would ask me where I was from
... unfortunately, in most instances, my would-be suitors left in such a
great hurry it left my perfectly-coiffured hair in a mess once they
discovered I was just as, if not more, local than they were. So what IS
one supposed to assume from instances such as these? I don't fault them
for it, though. As Dinesh argues, we all have our own preferences (or
fetishes, if that pleases you!)! There are just as many others out there
who are perfectly satisfied with me for who I am, so it doesn't bother
I guess my point is, Eaststar has HIS
opinion, which he cared to share with us. Let's not give him such a hard
time over it, if we still are that is. I'm pretty backdated over here,
hope I don't blow things up again if they've already gone away.
31 July 2002
my own experience, the experiences of my friends, and my learning, i
know both Dinesh-like experiences and Eaststar-like experiences exist.
- i know asian gay men who are only into
white gay men and expect to be treated like human beings. i know
white gay men who are into gay asian men but do not assume a racist
power dynamic when interacting with asian men. they treat each other
as human beings.
- i have met white gay men who are into
asian gay men and completely objectify asian gay men. this involves
them assuming a certain power dynamic in the white gay man's favor
in their relations to gay asian men. this assumed power dynamic is
clearly racist. i know asian gay men who are only into white gay men
because they think that sleeping with another asian is incestuous.
this is clearly a form of self-loathing.
- i know of asian gay men who only
date asian gay men because they are only into asian guys, period.
some also do it to avoid the complications of interracial
relationships, period. i also know of asian gay men who have gone
into "reverse-racism" and do not date any white guy
because they cannot see them as anything else but the oppressor.
- i have met white gay men only into
white gay men for a myriad of reasons, racist and non racist.
you get the picture, i hope.
i think all attraction involves some
objectification, some initial stereotyping. the key is to discern
whether those objectifications are linked to racism which involve
unequal power dynamics of superior-inferior. the historic legacy of 19th
Cen. global colonialism, and racism against non-whites in the US has
left many structures and attitudes which tend to perpetuate unequal
white-supremacist racial dynamics. work to dismantle these structures.
HOWEVER, that does not mean all
individual gay white men (who are into gay asian men) today are racist.
some are, many are not. that does not mean all asian gay men expect to
be subordinated. some do (it's true, most often completed with class
issues), most do not (very true also).
i remember my caucasian friend asking if
the problematic white-asian dynamic would ever become non-problematic.
to which i replied, not in our lifetime.
we're workin' on it, a-ight? must talk
more about it!
|Foreword by Yawning Bread
A simple posting about an new gay venue East West Bar led to an
interesting exchange of views on SiGNeL about the fetishisation of
Asian and White in the gay male community. These are very well
articulated postings, and I think it would be useful to have them